Craig Mackay

It's easier than ever to connect with people

Craig shares how the more we put off doing something, the scarier it becomes, and how to avoid getting stuck in that trap.

Listen to the audio


Watch the Interview


The Answer Room


Links from this episode 

The Answer Room Audio:

Craig’s Website:  or

Craig’s Business Facebook page:   

Craig’s Clubhouse: @craigmackay

Craig’s email: [email protected]

Craig’s YouTube channel:

Dolores Cannon: 

Carol Denicker: 

Dan Candell:  

Michael DeShalit:

David Snyder: 

Jason Linett: 

Peter Mclaughlin’s YouTube:

Lori’s podcast episode with Anthony Serino:

Lori’s podcast episode with Lance Sinclair:  


My Gift To You ❤

Here's my powerful hypnosis audio, THE ANSWER ROOM, that lets you find clarity and direction for important decisions. 


0 (0s):
If you were haunted and harassed by your own inner critic, if you've ever been curious about why hypnosis works so well, if you're a seasoned hypnotist, or if you suspect that the inner critic is actually hypnotizing you to hold back from reaching the greatness that you know, deep down is inside you, lean in and get inspired to get out of your comfort zone and create your one precious life with purpose and intention. If you like this show, you'll love my powerful hypnosis audio, the answer room, because it gives you crystal clear guidance and direction and illuminates an ingenious way to make triumphant decisions.

0 (48s):
No matter how stuck you feel or how confused you were. This powerful hypnosis audio is my gift to you. When you go to the imposter again, that's the imposter Don't forget the, the, the imposter And yes, I'm done saying it. Thank you. Thank you. From the bottom of my heart for listening. I'm Lori Hammond, and I'm truly grateful for you.

1 (1m 18s):
So excited to welcome today's guest Craig McKay to the show. Craig and I met on clubhouse a couple of weeks ago, and I knew immediately that I had to introduce you to him. This episode is packed with value. As we recorded. There were several spots where I wished that I could rewind and re-listen on the spot because Craig gave such elegant insight into silencing the imposter monster. Lucky for you. You can rewind. And re-listen originally from Scotland. Craig is now based in Nashville with his wife, Janine, where he runs a thriving online hypnosis practice and has a proven track record of helping people boost their confidence, overcome limiting beliefs and realize their potential by letting them shift self-limiting beliefs about who they are and who they are not and what they think they can and cannot accomplish so that they can turn their dreams and goals into a wonderful reality.

1 (2m 17s):
Enjoy this rich conversation that will allow you to turn your dreams and goals into wonderful reality as well. Craig, if you would, the other day, you and I were in a clubhouse room together, and I was so grateful to get to hear a little bit of your story. And I thought at that time, I need to have him on my podcast because I know everyone in the room benefited from hearing just about, about your journey, what brought you into hypnosis, where you are now and where you're heading. So I know that's a broad intro, but if you would just share whatever's on your heart to share, I would love it.

0 (2m 54s):
Sure. There's, there's actually a deeper level to it. That's, that's, that's even more personal than what I shared the other day, but here's

2 (3m 0s):
A version of it. I can always tell you about that and maybe I'll throw it in, but I was always interested as a kid really about spirituality. I was very interested in this idea. If, if there is a soul or there is a spirit, or if we're something more than, you know, our body, I was very interested in that idea. And I was curious about, you know, we have psychics and things like that. And I thought, if that's all true, then why is it? Some people can do that in some con. And I, I became quite interested in how would that relate with the brain and how would that relate with, you know, our conscious, our conscious mind a lot, didn't have the words to say conscious mind at the time. But then I began to look into saying, well, if we look at the mind, then, then I saw that we have a conscious mind and then we have a subconscious mind.

2 (3m 45s):
And I'm sure you've seen the many people listening have probably seen those iceberg pictures that people might use to explain the subconscious. But I thought, what if the tip of the iceberg is the conscious mind? What if the part under the surface is the subconscious? And what if the ocean represents the higher self, the soul, the spirit, or whatever word we might want to use? So I thought, well then the intermediary between our, our conscious mind, which we might agree is quite limited and the higher self or the soul would be the intermediary would be the, the subconscious. So I began looking at well, what modalities influenced that part and could form the bridge. So to speak between the two. And I saw hypnosis is one of them.

2 (4m 25s):
So now let me put that to the side and, and come into it from another angle here. So I was where I'm from in Scotland, they call it the merchant Navy. It's a little different than the merchant Marine over here, but I worked on ships for cargo ships, oil and gas, mostly for eight, was it nine years? And then for the last year of working at CA I actually went and transferred over to cruise ships. And my, my now wife was a singer and it was her, it was something new. She was trying to, to work on the cruise ships. It was something new I was trying, and it wasn't my intention going there to, to meet, to meet, you know, a wife, but within a few weeks of being there, I met her.

2 (5m 7s):
And after, you know, long distance for a while, we thought, well, either I moved to New York where she was living, or we moved to Scotland and I decided, well, I'd rather move to New York that sensory exciting. So I moved to New York, but then I choose the way that the licenses work for what I did on the ships. I couldn't do that anymore. And plus I didn't want to be away for six to eight months a year having just, you know, got married and that wouldn't be fun for me. So I then began looking at what can I do for work? And I remember burning through my savings, living in paying New York rent for a year or so. And then I'd been reading books by Delores cannon. It was at the time I'm looking at some of my shelf and I'm actually, and who's a hypnotist.

2 (5m 48s):
And that was, I thought, that's really interesting work that she's doing. So then I started looking around at well hypnosis courses or classes as I was rapidly coming to the end of the savings. And I found Carol Danica and Emma's who certifies for the NGH on long Island. So I went and I talked to her on the phone and she was wonderful and I felt a good connection there. So I went and took her, her NGH certification class. And part of that was, you know, creating a website and everything. So we did that and I thought, well, shit, this is getting a bit real now. So I put up the website and then I put up some deals like Groupon. And at the time there was one called Amazon local. And I remember doing sessions with my apartment at the time, cause I was brand new.

2 (6m 31s):
And I remember in the beginning, Amazon local, which is almost like Groupon. I think the deal that they said they were willing to offer was three sessions for 99. And they, they kept like four, eight. I forget if it was for, I think it was 40%, they kept, so I do three sessions for 60. So I cut my teeth with that for a while. And then group on, I think it was $63 and I kept half of it. So I remember doing some of those sessions that was 2014 or end of 2013. And after a while of that, I wasn't getting that many clients, but a few. And I, I went to work then part-time for a hypnosis center in Manhattan, a couple of days a week, built some more experience doing that.

2 (7m 13s):
And then this thing, my, my own thing started to take off and then got an office. And that was what was that 2016. I finally moved into the office and then, but then it was just, things just started to elevate. And it was, full-time seeing clients then in my office and in the Queens area of New York city. And then if we fast forward to last summer, so 2020 then deciding, you know, because of the pandemic and everything, everything moved online. And my wife's a singer and her style of music is compatible with Nashville. So we moved down here and do I do my sessions online? So it's been seven years of doing this.

2 (7m 55s):
Now I got certified in the end of 2013 and it's been a really interesting road. And after doing that NGH certification, I also went and over the years of going to conventions and getting to know certain people I've taken other certifications that really just broadened my interest in this Don Kendall's one of them done. And Michael to Charlotte, I've taken their joint training. And then David Snyder, I went to his identity by design, as recent as November in DC. Outstanding. I've taken Jason Lynette's certification class as well. There's probably others I forgotten, but it's been an interesting evolution from, from where it began.

2 (8m 37s):
And what else would I add to that? Oh yeah. If I go back to the beginning with the spirituality stuff. So when I started, I thought I'd love to do past life regressions and everything. And I've done a few of those. I mean, well, quite a few, but then I kind of fell in love with the stuff that I originally thought was the, the everyday hypnosis. You know, I started to see that people are people and you can have a group make a great impact with people no matter what they come for and begin the count, realize that often what they come, they see they're coming for. When you dig a little bit, it's not actually what it is. And really, yeah. There's a long story of me putting it all, putting it all out there. That's, that's my story, Lori.

1 (9m 18s):
This is so awesome. Craig, I've been taking notes. I don't know if people can see me typing as you're speaking. And there are some things that really jumped out at me. One is that you, you know, starting with Groupon $20 a session on a New York budget so hard, and then you started working at an office and you mentioned that in 2020, when you moved into your own office, that things are not 2020 in 2016, when you moved into your own office, that things started to take off. Will you talk to me a little bit about what was going through your mind when you first, you know, maybe if you can go back to when you set up those Groupon and Amazon local ads, what was going through your mind when you started working in the hypnosis office?

1 (10m 5s):
Just kind of, you know, in the context of that imposter monster and how scary it is to start after a training. Just talk to me about that

2 (10m 13s):
Couple of things I would say about that. I felt that I had to get started and I think that really helped. I really do. So it felt like I have to start making money with this. So, and I think that really helped. So at the time it felt very stressful, but it really helped because, and I'll be honest here, there's people I've, I've met that have been certified for years, that aren't seeing clients. And it's almost like I don't have to yet where I kind of felt I had to. And I'm grateful for that because that was the push to actually get going with it. And about the actual office part of it. This is so funny. I remember, and I'll just be specific. Why not? So I remember going to look at an office space and it was 10 minutes walk from my apartment, right? So it's dreams 10 minutes fog.

2 (10m 55s):
And I remember the, the manager of the building at the time showing me showing me the space. And when she said, let's know crazy, this is it's 375 a month. And for 24 seven access. And I was like, Oh, 375. And looking back now, I'm thinking I should have right there. And then just said, right now, let me know, let me write you a check because that's a bargain, but obviously bargain. But at the time it was like, Oh, I hope I can afford to do that. Even though it was, you know, 30 days notice that imposter monster was going, Oh, what if you can't? What if you can't make that work? And you know, what, if the environment's not great because it wasn't, there was an interesting thing was almost like a, we workspace it wasn't we worked, but it's something similar. So there's lots of glass walls, but because of the location that I was in at the end of a row, they let me put up curtains.

2 (11m 39s):
So it was a bit more private and stuff. But at the time when I was getting shown it, I thought, Oh no, this is a big commitment. And then looking back I'm like, it was, it was amazing. And it was, I mean, absolute bargain for New York. I mean an absolute so that the imposter monster was there. But then, you know what, that's one of those things, which is part of a bigger theme that when something's new, it's scary, but everything that's familiar now at some point was new and scary. So it's almost like that idea that if I become, if I waiting to become comfortable and, and right before maybe this is before this, this will be from a part before we actually started officially recording here. But, but that idea about being in the stands or being on the court, right?

2 (12m 20s):
So it's almost like when I'm comfortable playing the game from the stand I'll get on, I'll play the game and it never happens. So it's almost like that idea of it was scary, but I had to do it for it. And then after a while it became just normal and uneventful, so to speak, you know, like not particularly anything to write home about, it was just normal. So it's another example, same like with the pricing. And I know this has kind of come up in the group recently and I made a post about this idea about whenever something is new, it's frightening because part of us, you know, that reptilian brain is kind of going, Oh, is this is dangerous. Not just physically, but you know, emotionally or on the identity level. So then when we make those changes, that's the only way they become comfortable.

2 (13m 1s):
And I'm still learning that lesson continuously. That one about, well, when I'm comfortable, I'll make, take the step, but then that moment never arrives. There's no comfort without taking the step. So there's me making it a bigger, bigger theme there, but it was, it was concerning, but after it was very soon, it was normal. And I was

1 (13m 21s):
Love that. That's so awesome. And, and I hope that people really, really listened to what you just said. Maybe even rewind back and listen to the last one or two minutes of this conversation, because I really want people to understand that you have to do it before you feel ready. If you wait too, like what Craig just said, if you wait to feel comfortable, you're never going to do it. And I also love how you said I had to get started. We're always moving everyone listening to this probably really knows. We're always moving away from pain or towards pleasure. And for me, I, I chose to quit my job as a hairstylist because I had been working to build my business up for years.

1 (14m 1s):
I had, I had an idea that I wanted to do something entrepreneurial and I had tried several different ideas. And I had proven to myself that I wasn't going to do it unless I pushed myself out of the nest. And so I was so scared to do this stuff. And my imposter monster was screaming in my ear, but the pain of going back to being a hairstylist, even though I loved that job was so scary, was more intense for me than the pain and fear of putting myself out there and getting started. So I think that's really important. I see people, especially as hypnotists, we can really do this for ourselves. We can make it the idea of not taking action seem so scary and hard that we choose to take that action.

2 (14m 45s):
I think that's such an important point. And one of the things that I think is fantastic about hypnosis is if we come from the understanding that the subconscious can't tell the difference between what's real versus what's vividly imagined, then I think the, the advantage we have with hypnosis is that we can almost put ourselves in those situations quite immersively before we even get there so that we can establish, you know, safety around it emotionally and physically. So it's almost like we can imagine taking a step being in it, noticing what we would see, you know, smell, feel what would be different. And I think that that's a real advantage because it can bridge. This is one of the reasons I love hypnosis because it can bridge that gap between I'm actually not taking that step.

2 (15m 25s):
And I'm over here in my comfort zone versus being over there in that place. That's completely unfamiliar taking that step, whatever it might be. The beautiful thing I think with hypnosis, we can almost bridge that gap about, well, from where I am, I can kind of immerse myself in that experience so that it can become more familiar, right. And then it can feel safe, not just physically, but emotionally and in terms of identity and such like. So one of the reasons I love hypnosis is if we use that tool that we give to others, or we use with others, we can kind of bridge that gap between the two, because if they remain separate I'm w and a bigger theme here is this kind of binary idea of a zero and a one where we kind of say, well, here I am parked at zero.

2 (16m 6s):
And the goal over there is a one. And there's nothing between them where if we can break that down into almost steps, we can kind of say, well, what's it like when I'm over there, what would I feel? What would I see? And almost fire that in the nervous system before we actually get there. So that we've heard many people say, or maybe you've seen it in movies or heard it in stories for people say I got there. And it was like, Oh, I've been here before because they visualized it their whole life. So it's also interesting too. How sometimes in hypnosis has this funky word where we, we mentioned it to people, people like, Oh, trans, Oh, but not realizing we're doing all the time. Anytime we're motivated, it's a form of hypnosis because the thing that we're thinking about typically isn't here yet, right? When we're scared of something, it's a form of trance to cause the thing we're afraid of typically isn't here right now.

2 (16m 50s):
Maybe it was once. Maybe it could be again, but it's typically not here right now. So I think that the beautiful thing about hypnosis is that we can kind of play with reality, so to speak about, well, here we are right now, but the only time we're not in hypnosis is when we're a hundred percent mindfully present. Right. And I ask people, what percentage of the time do you think you're a hundred percent mindfully present? I need to go home very little. So then where are we? Then we're going somewhere else. And the data from wherever we're going is firing in our system and we're reacting to it. So I think it's such an interesting thing back to the original point where something's frightening. If we can establish familiarity with it using hypnosis, and we're doing it with, or without a formal hypnotic process, by the way we do this, when we're afraid of things, we do this from we're excited about things.

2 (17m 35s):
We do it anyway. So the point that I'm making with that there too is yes. If we use this tool that we're trained to use, it can really help us to bridge that, that gap between being here and being where we want to be. That was, that was such a beautiful gold

1 (17m 50s):
Nugget. I feel like you just summed up an excellent pre-talk for any hypnotist who, you know, when, when you mentioned that you're a hypnotist and somebody backs off and they're, they're afraid of you controlling their mind. If you explain it the way Craig just did, that was such an eloquent explanation. Thank you so much for that.

2 (18m 10s):
Well, the funny one around that too, is if they had control of their mind, they wouldn't be there. So helping them to take back control.

1 (18m 16s):
Yeah. That's the thing I say to people, you know, I, I came to hypnosis, even though I was afraid of it. I thought it was witchcraft or something. Woo, woo. Like too scary. Woo-hoo and I thought I need someone else to control my mind because I can't control my own. And I realized that what hypnosis is, is teaching you to control your own mind. So that's awesome. Craig, if you look back at your, start in 2014 and, and I don't ask this because I want you to look for regrets. I don't really, I'm not a big fan of regretting the past, but if you were to go back and just give yourself some advice or some piece of wisdom and insight about starting again, how, what would have you done different?

1 (18m 60s):
What would you tweak? What advice would you give to someone who's new and just starting out and wants to build a similar practice?

2 (19m 8s):
Keep investing in yourself is one of them, you know, keep training, keep evolving. I think that's very important because I think about some periods of stagnation where, you know, you go to like hypno thoughts and then you're really excited. And then if you don't do anything at the time between then and the next year, you know, kind of thinking like, Oh, I want, I want to learn something. So, but also I would say getting a mentor is important and you know, listening to the words of people who've gone before, because then you don't have to reinvent the wheel and don't be scared to think bigger really is another thing, especially with the internet. I mean, we couldn't rattle off some names of some people, people who've really embraced thinking big and believe in yourself.

2 (19m 50s):
And also here's, this is a very big one. This is, this is what's coming up and you remind us the central one. Don't feel that as a practitioner, that you have to have all of the answers yourself or that you have to be perfect. Don't be embarrassed to put your hand up and say, well, you know, I need to work with someone too for my stuff. Cause I almost feel like from doing this work, it makes, it brings us well for me, at least it brought me into a contact with stuff I would like to, to deal with myself. So keep, don't be scared about getting help yourself to build your confidence or to get anything out of the way that needs to get out of the way for you to be all that you can be. And I'd say that really not articulating that particularly well, but saying that don't be scared to put your hand up and say that, you know, I need some, you know, help with things too, because it can be quite intense work.

2 (20m 40s):
This, I'm looking at it and saying that we are human beings and just, and I really fell into the trap of thinking I should know better, or I should be a perfect example. And then coming to the place of accepting that somebody said it to me might even have been done. Kendall is like, you know, you're a human being, right. And I was like, Oh right. Why is that shocking? Cause it's almost like I have to be perfect for my clients. And that's a lot of pressure and that's not what's needed. And also to think that another angle from that is thinking you don't have to be perfect to help people. You just have to be a step further ahead in an area where they need help. That's it. I would go back and I would say that, and I would say think bigger. I would say routinely, you know, have conversations with, with a mentor or someone on the pur to work on the personal stuff, to keep evolving that way and collaborate too, because I think it can be quite a lonely thing.

2 (21m 30s):
I mean, when I'd go to the conventions and you're like, wow, all these people are hypnotists. Ah, cause I'm used to it being when I'd go meet people and they'd say, what do you do? And you say, I'm a hypnotist like, Oh, I've never met someone like you. And you're like, wow, am I the only one in the world? And then you go to a convention and there's hundreds and you go, wow, this is amazing. So network and, you know, make connections with people because otherwise it can be quite lonely. And I would say so. Yeah. And another thing I would say is work in programs, not session by session. That's another thing I would say too, because I think you can get a lot more change and also put barriers between prospective clients and you, because otherwise, you know, it can, can take a lot of your time and energy for people that maybe aren't ready yet.

2 (22m 11s):
So not particularly organized answer, but those are my thoughts.

1 (22m 14s):
I that's like a masterclass. I think if people go in and really apply what you just shared, it will be just life changing. There are a couple of things that you mentioned. One is the mentor and the barrier, and I'm writing these down as I type, because I want to come back to them. The, the group package, the packages. Will you talk to me, maybe for someone who just doesn't have the first idea about where to find a mentor, perhaps how you've done that or how you would recommend someone else doing that?

2 (22m 47s):
Well, I was introduced to the idea. I think it was at the NGH convention. That's where I saw Jason Lynette and it was his business boot camp at the time hypnosis business bootcamp. So after going through his program, then I saw that he offered consulting. So I reached out to him. So that was the start of that. There'll be another sense as well. And, but also actually my, my wife's from Buffalo, New York and I was up there and it was the holidays that it was a particularly stressful time and I was looking and I, I thought, let me see the hypnotists up here. Find one. Who's really fantastic. Peter, McLaughlin's his name? Blue sky hypnosis. Check him out on YouTube is very good. And I went and saw him and we had a really good connection.

2 (23m 29s):
And then he, you know, I hired him for some, some mentorship about a number of things and it was very useful and I still keep in touch with him. He's a great guy. And that was, I'm ran the mentorship side. And then also then taking classes with some other hypnotists. I don't know if they want me to mention them, but there's other ones too. And then I found your, your mastermind. So it's almost like when I was looking for that, that kind of guidance about someone who was, you know, a little further down the road. They, I noticed them. They tend, tended to show up, which without getting too woo about it. It's almost like it's like that thing show up almost like almost like what we're doing today.

1 (24m 6s):
Yeah, that's right. Yeah. It's real quick. We can tell the story. I, so Craig and I bumped into one another in a clubhouse room. And if you don't have the clubhouse app yet, I highly recommend it. Depending where, where, when you hear this, it's still in beta as we're recording. So it's not super easy to get it get in, but when you can get in, it's a beautiful way to just build rapport and connect with people and Craig, you happen to come into one of my rooms and you and I connected and you ended up, you came into my mastermind group and my trancey Tuesdays group, along with Janine, your wife, and it's just been, it's so awesome to get to know you there. And when you shared your story on clubhouse, the other day, I realized as everyone who has been has listened to this far now realizes that you just have massive value to bring to this conversation.

1 (24m 57s):
And I'm so grateful that we've connected.

2 (25m 1s):
Thank you for saying all that. What, what I listened to it in my head, it's just familiar with normal. So I'm glad that, you know, it can provide value to, to other people, but it's that clubhouse. It's an amazing thing. That was probably the, maybe the first room I was ever in. It was Anthony Serino, who, who posted if anyone needs an invite and I'd heard people talk about clubhouse. So I thought, okay, fine. Let me go into that. And then I saw he was in that room with you. So I saw it says Anthony Serena was in this room and I thought, let me see what this is all about. And then I heard you speak. And you mentioned that you are having, after that club host call that you were doing a Facebook live. So I thought, well, let me go in and have a look at that when I thought, wow, this is amazing. And then, then we S we, you know, we spoke and then, you know, here we are now, but it is kind of amazing that these days there's, there's almost no excuse to not be connected to people because it's probably never been easier.

2 (25m 52s):
Right. But that was an amazing turn of events. And yet it's an interesting app. Then David Snyder, the other day was in there answering questions with us, just popped in. And I'm like, this is crazy people that you normally wouldn't have this kind of access to. So what an interesting world we live in right now,

1 (26m 6s):
It is, it is incredibly awesome. Okay. I'd love to circle back to you talking about booking people in packages versus standalone sessions, where you go into a little more detail about that.

2 (26m 18s):
I'm glad you reminded me of that because I forgot that part of your question. So that was actually something that, that I think it was Peter was telling me about that because he was offering bundles of sessions. And I thought, the reason why I started moving in that direction was sometimes you would get somebody that would come in for something and you would start the work. And you'd find out that this is maybe bigger than we thought, and there's more to do. So might come in for one session and then be able to judge the process and make a judgment based on an incomplete process. So I thought then it's better to work in packages. So for a while, then I said, we do three sessions, or we don't do any. That was, and I was that way for awhile.

2 (27m 1s):
And then I started to create other packages. So I had a three, a six and a 12. And that used to be, you had to start with an, I never used to do, I would talk to someone on the phone, but it wouldn't actually be a strategy session. So to speak, it would be a quick Q and a on the phone and sometimes not so quick. But then I went back the way I do it now though, is I, I do a strategy session with people on zoom or over the phone and at the end of that, and then I go for one full paid session. And there's a reason for that, that then, so then I can really get an opportunity to work with them and see if this is someone I want to work with too. And that's important too, because we're always thinking about, do they want to work with me? And that's also equally important stage why want to work with them? That's super important.

2 (27m 43s):
I won't go too deep into that, but I think people might know what I mean by that, that there's then I thought at the end of that, then we have an idea having worked together on a full session, you know, I'll make a recommendation on what I think in terms of we can do continue doing one-to-one if we want, but that's at a higher price. Like, I mean, session by session or I offer, or I make a recommendation out of my three, six or 12, and that's where I'm at now with it. But I've checked chopped and changed a lot and experimented a lot with it. So I guess we would say experiment, but at the base level of it, we want to make sure that people are a good fit. That's why I offer both the free strategy session. Then I recommend doing one full paid session so I can make sure we're a good fit because I give a lot of energy to people.

2 (28m 23s):
And you want to make sure that it's people that want the change and are willing to invest in it to really cause it's an energy exchange really is what it is. And I don't like coming out of a session having feel like I've given my heart and soul to it and felt like I haven't really been rewarded for it. I don't like that. And I've done enough of it to say, I've done my I've done enough of it to, to, to be confident in saying that that's how I feel now. But then the packages programs part two is that it needs a process. Really. I think most people need a process. And I think Jason says changes a process. Not an event might not be Jason, but I've heard that cool. It's a process, not an event. So I would like almost say that I, I didn't like it where people would kind of almost start the process and then due to money or whatever would, would disappear.

2 (29m 5s):
I didn't really like that. So I always wanted a chance to actually take someone through some kind of a process. And I think something's magical happens when somebody commits to saying, okay, here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to do three year. I'm gonna do six. And when people have said I'll do 12 and you're like, wow, we can really do a

3 (29m 19s):
Lot of work here.

2 (29m 22s):
And that's where we also in terms of, but also I would say that over time, I've kind of, I do use hypnosis of course, but some of the more I was trained as like a traditional I'll call it more traditional hypnotists. Then when I learned, you know, Melissa tears kind of more interactive style or David's Snyder's I thought, Oh shit, I have to adapt here and evolve. And then realizing then as well that you, you learn coaching over. So it's almost like saying if you've got all of these tools, it's nice to have a period of time where you can work with people from a number of different angles. Because I think that that can really help solidify the change. So working through a process to me has always been much, much more beneficial for them.

2 (30m 7s):
And it takes that pressure off. I can think of a number of times Laura, if by having that pressure where someone's like, well, I'll give it a try. And you're like going, wow, I have to, and then those sessions would run really long kind of thinking, wow, I have to throw everything at this. And like in one goal and yeah, it's, it's, that's, that's my message on that.

1 (30m 30s):
That is the, this is so valuable. So that, that brings me back to where you were talking a moment ago about creating a barrier between yourself and the client. Does that go into that and that this is like an energetic barrier? Or will you talk more about that?

2 (30m 44s):
Sure. Well, I think that, I think I'm taking, taking this from, from Jason as well, the compliance proceed suggestibility, right? So it's almost, if we can create some hoops that people have to jump through before they even get to you, it, that already begins to weed out people that are just casually browsing. It's almost like when people would, would, would reach out and say, Hey, how much are your sessions? It's almost then like, that's an uneducated prospect. They're not in terms of their college education, but in terms of how much for what do you know what you're buying? Because you could go, you could go to a used car lot. And the guy could say, I'll sell you a car for a hundred bucks. Do you want one go? That's a bargain, but you don't know what you're getting. It could be something that doesn't even start. It doesn't even have an engine.

2 (31m 25s):
We don't know. So it's about saying that as soon as you get reduced to a commodity, which is what happens, if it's just on price, then it's, then it's almost, then they're always there. They're typically going to take the lowest. So it's almost like wanting to have the opportunity to, to dive into, well, actually I have so much I'll talk about in this. Let me try and organize it a bit. I think that every time we put a barrier in place that weeds out people that are just casually browsing people that aren't maybe ready yet. So it's almost like saying for me, and I'll just give my example, people go on my website. If they call me, they'll get an automated text that directs them to a page on my site where they can book a strategy session to do that. They have to fill out a form and then choose a time.

2 (32m 5s):
They have to do that. And a lot of people will just not, they'll start the form, see that it's more than two questions and abandon it and that's fine. That's fine. Then other people that have kind of filled out these questions and then booked the time by then most of those people then convert because you know, they're ready, they've willed. They've been willing to take the time that this thing has been worth five minutes of their time beyond just asking how much is it? So those every time I've put a barrier in place it's helped. But I also understand that in the beginning, if I'd done that, then I probably have no clients. I understand that too. So if somebody's brand new, you probably want as few barriers as possible because you want to get on the phone with as many people as possible to kind of have a conversation and, you know, convey value and go from that.

2 (32m 51s):
But then as you get a little bit more experienced and you've got a few more clients in your schedule, maybe you want to be putting those barriers in place. And then I think of like, say someone like David Snyders and example, or Jason net or Dan Candell, or if there's many others, I'm leaving out. Mike Mendell as well is probably another one that probably the number of people that are interested is huge. So then it's almost like same. Don't have time to have the conversation with everyone. So the people that have kind of jumped through certain hoops about saying, Hey, I'm willing to take some time to actually go through this process before I even get to you. That's a different level of client and almost it's, it's also then conditioning the client to how we work, you know?

2 (33m 32s):
And I think that that's, it's important. So I do think that that is very important, having those things there. But I also understand for a new hypnotists, they just want to get experienced and get clients. So that might come later, but having a forum and having people schedule something is important too. And another part of that too, sometimes people would call and they'd be on the subway in New York, or they're in the street. And you kind of feel like this is not really a good quality conversation. So it's almost better about saying let's schedule a time and you can choose the time. Cause it saves the back and forth. And then we'll have a focused conversation about what you're looking to do. And I think also that conveys a level of professionalism too. So then when you actually get to the price and such like it, I think that it softens it.

2 (34m 14s):
Yeah. But I don't get too many people that now at the end say, wait, there's a charge for this beginning. Sure. But I hope that's helpful.

1 (34m 22s):
That's so helpful. And I'm so glad I asked because when I, when I heard you say barrier, I was almost picturing, you know, even as a hairstylist, I would do do certain things to protect my energy from my super negative clients who, you know, even as I'm touching their head, it's almost like those negative vibes are coming up my hands. And so I was thinking of it as more of an, an energetic barrier. So I'm so glad that you explained that because that is incredibly valuable. And, and to me, that strategy, I have so many people come to me and say, nobody's willing to pay. People, want everything for free.

2 (34m 57s):
And also if I'm just being completely honest here, the number of times where people would call knowing nothing about hypnosis and then taking them all the way to educating them, hearing their story and then making a recommendation for them to then say no, after, I don't know how many dozens or I don't know hundreds of that. Whereas like, no, no, we're not doing that anymore. And actually I'm inspired by Jason Lynette's. Now, if you call this his number it's voicemail only. So it directs you to a page on his site. I think it's Virginia forward slash call. If I remember rightly and that there that's where that he has a video that explains everything. And he even puts his price in there. But I'll talk about that in a minute and that you can then schedule with a deposit a with them now for someone starting, that might seem shocking, but Jason's busy for weeks.

2 (35m 42s):
So that's fine. So somebody who's, who's been through a presentation, put down a deposit book to call and then getting on the call. That's going to be a completely different conversation than someone saying, Hey, I don't even know what hypnosis is. I don't even know if I believe in it, but I'm having this problem that I'm on. I'm on a really strict budget. Can you help? And you're like, Oh right. So, but I understand that on for me pro that's on the advanced level, somebody starting out probably might not get any clients from that because maybe people don't know who they are, which goes back almost to, and I'm deviating a bit here, but so something from the group the other day deliver great value, but get the reviews in exchange super important, no use giving value and people getting results in the world, not knowing about it.

2 (36m 23s):
And you might think I shouldn't be doing that, but people it's service-based industry and people are going to look at reviews. When you go, I'm going to go and look at a restaurant or you're going to go look at, go to a movie or something. You probably look up the reviews. We are no different than that. So we need those reviews. And then the more of that you have, then people are gonna find you. And then you're going to get more calls because people want that experience and they want that result. So I think that that's super, super important. And Jason's great with the internet. You know, you can find a lot of things about him and all over the place. So back to the, the, the, the barriers thing in the beginning, probably last, but as you go on, we might want to consider more and we want to qualify people because not everyone's a fit.

2 (37m 5s):
And there's another thing too, in the beginning, I would probably take, I would have taken anyone that was willing to pay anyone. I remember my first client came for a teeth grinding bruxism and I remember that wasn't specifically covered in my initial training, but I thought, shit, I need to make this work. And I remember him coming in and working with them. And I think I gave him like two hours as I typically do, which is too long. So it was probably people listening to this going, Oh my God, why is he doing that? Which is another subject. But then I called him a few days later. Cause that's what I did in the beginning. I'd call a few days later and say, you know what, you know, how are things going? And he said, Oh, things are much better. And I almost wanted to mute the phone. And I remembered like taking a moment going, what do you mean they're better?

2 (37m 46s):
Cause I wasn't even, I hadn't even covered that. Like I just did the best I could. And that's see, there's another example I had to make it work. So it's like, let me just get in there and do it. Let me just get in there and do it. And that's rescripts were useful in the beginning as well, which is a whole other subject, but it was, I don't even know where we started with that. Lori barriers. Yes. Those were those. I think it was the battery of your conversation more than, and I did get it from, I think it's, it's similar to what Jason has in the velvet rope, although I haven't adopted all of it yet.

1 (38m 23s):
That's incredible. This, this is just, I'm S I'm thinking of new people starting out. This is just a masterclass in knowing how to think about different things and how to adjust your thinking to bring in high quality clients. You mentioned reviews. Do you have any strategies for eliciting reviews for people? I know there's a lot of limiting belief in this arena, in the hypnosis community, because we it's, you know, it feels like this really private, almost sacred space. And we don't want to say, Hey, will you talk about this for the public? So any best practices around getting reviews.

2 (38m 59s):
I understand what you're talking about there, that it is personal. And some people in that might not want to share about it. And I know some business professionals have said to me, I wouldn't want people thinking that I'm having a problem. And I guess we have a lot of people that are struggling and don't want to say so, but what I would say is there are certain people where they were very good clients where I reached out and I just asked them, I just said, listen, you know, and, and would you be willing to leave a few lines from either my website or a public review? And then we'll just say, you're not supposed to do that, but it's, it's important for growing your business and you know, what, if it can reach other people then I think fine. But so there's that messaging people directly and asking, especially if you're in the beginning and you've been doing trades or, you know, you know, discount sessions, it's important, energetically, you do it.

2 (39m 45s):
And even better get video testimonials. That's great for your website, but I know people might not want to do that one, but public reviews are great, really, really help. But another thing that I did was on my website, actually, the, the appointment booking software that also handles the intake forms. Cause I send people an intake form and they book and that's part of my automate some of the automation I do not quite like Jason does, but I have some automation, but within that, I have it that four days after an appointment, not their first appointment, but subsequent appointments that they get an email that asks them about their experience. And I have two pages on my website that there's a link.

2 (40m 25s):
It says, would you be willing to, to let us know how your experience was? They click it and it initially takes an internal review. And if it's positive, then it gives, it, takes them to another page on my site that lists my Yelp, my Google, and a few others. And it requests politely, you know, whether they're willing to leave that public most don't, I'll be honest. Maybe one in a hundred does maybe, but you know, from time to time, I get one and, and they add up, I mean, at the time of writing this, I think 18 on Google, which took me quite a while to get and 32 on Yelp. So it adds up and it took time. But it was really when I started getting the reviews that I started getting calls because especially in New York, people would be looking for like hypnotists, they'd look on Yelp.

2 (41m 13s):
Some would look on Google, but many would look on Yelp because it's a service. So then they would say, well, this person's got five star reviews. Let me contact him. We're referred the person that's like, maybe got one or two or none. Then people are thinking, well, are they new or what's going on? Right. So as soon as we can get over that, the better, in my opinion and other strategies, what else would I say? There are companies that help with that. I did go with one and it didn't work out very well for me, but that's a whole other story. That's about the imposter monster to that story, which I can tell, but those are my strategies for it. So it's all four days after an appointment. It requests politely that they do, but there's no pressure with it. And in the beginning though, I was messaging people saying, you know, when, when I would check in with them, if it was a great experience that say, would you be willing to share this?

2 (41m 59s):
Because it will help other people just like you, you know, find out about this, which is an important thing. And when you put it like, and also I've said to people, this, you know, my business really depends on people knowing I'm here.

1 (42m 10s):
Yeah. I love that. When I first started, I, I asked a group of people that had been in a business training. I did, and they were all intrigued by hypnosis. So I offered the entire group. I think there were like 80 people in the group, a free hypnosis session in exchange for a review. So I let them know right up front. Right? If you love this, I'm going to ask you for a review. And they went and put stuff on the internet, on their, on their own Facebook pages. It was really awesome if you, if you let them know right up front and people are happy to do that, especially if they know in advance, I will say out of those 80 people, I think maybe 20 people responded and took me up on it. And maybe eight of them actually followed through.

1 (42m 53s):
So I want to make people aware of that because sometimes we don't understand that funnel as it trickles down into people that actually take action. So

2 (43m 2s):
That's a very good point. And that actually opens up something bigger about comparing that somebody who didn't, hadn't heard what you shared. So thank you for sharing that might do the same thing, get the same result, but without any kind of context, go off, see this as a sign or, you know, people don't want it or, you know, it's it's me, but so I've often found that without, you know, data like that, to compare it to that, I might look at it and go, I'm in a terrible place. This is not the way it's supposed to be, or this is a bad sign. So I'm thankful that you shared, that's a good example, that that's probably a very good result compared to what could happen otherwise. And then there is that funneling down. Yeah.

1 (43m 40s):
Awesome. Craig, you mentioned that you were willing to talk about pricing a little bit, and I know that's a hot topic in this community. So I would love to hear anything you have to share about pricing and about the two hour sessions, if that fits in, in any way, I would love to know more.

2 (43m 56s):
I can almost hear. And there's a voice I'm hearing my head before I respond to you. And it's Melissa tier's voice right now. And, or, and Dan, Kendall's both actually about this idea that the two hours is probably more for me than for them where that's something that I'm kind of overcoming about going. I have to over-deliver my value, or I've got to be good enough. So, but then realizing on the that's subconscious, you know, that's emotional stuff. But then on the conscious level, two hours is ridiculous and people will lose most of it. But I'll on, on the other side, the two hours, it's almost like if I have a chance to take them out of their world, right? If there's space for that period of time, that's enough time to really interrupt the machinery, to, to take the car out a gear so that you can actually work or turn off the engines a little bit so you can work on it.

2 (44m 45s):
So there's pros and cons to it, but I wouldn't recommend it to people if you're maybe doing something like a, I think Ken good souls, stop smoking protocols, a two hour thing. So certain things that are, you know, an event type thing fine. But even that, that process that can give someone isn't all, you know, it's not all with the client, there's a video and there's different things with it, but two hours too long. But if I go into pricing, what I would say is, and I heard David Snyder say this the other day, B B if in the beginning, you're scared about your price and for 50%, between the lowest and the highest in your area, if you want to make it geographical. And I know many people do, but around pricing, I raised my prices when every, every price that I charged in the beginning felt scary.

2 (45m 37s):
And after a while it felt like I wasn't getting enough back. It really started to feel like that. And I started becoming a bit jaded really, or a bit bitter. And that's the truth where sometimes I go, this I've given I've and I don't mean this to sound arrogant, but I've done great work with this person. And this is what I'm getting for it. I'm not just to the point. And then we're almost as like, I don't really, I don't, I don't really want to be doing this anymore. And then thinking about then every time I'd put my price up, it became normal. So I remember starting out with those Amazon ones. So three for I'd get $60 for three sessions and I would do two hours each for them. So it's a New York. So that's what it is. And then the group on one's getting $30 a session, but also then saying, you know what? I I'm building an experience that I remember when I went to 150, some people would balk at that and I'll go 150 people won't pay that.

2 (46m 26s):
And then when all the way up to doing $300 for a single session and people, some would say, no, some would say yes. And that 300 though, like push through some invisible, visible barrier for me where I thought, Oh no, this is all. I feel like what I feel I have to bring to the sessions, which is all my personal stuff. Well, it's, it's a lot delivering $300 of value. Oh, that's a lot. So then I actually went backwards to two 50 and that's when I kind of settled. And that's when I started then looking at marketing companies that would help with building high ticket programs. Cause I was then thinking if I can work with a program that it's about being able to convey, become a specialist, and this is another subject becoming a specialist rather than a generalist.

2 (47m 9s):
And the example I heard was, you know, why does the brain surgeon make more money than the primary care physician? It's like, well, cause they have one has, has a shallow, but very broad expertise. The other one has narrow, but very deep expertise in what, in that area. And if you needed, if you needed brain surgery, which one would you prefer? Cause they're both medical doctors. When I heard that, I thought, right? Yes. Nothing against primary care physicians. It's, it's a great, great career. It's just as an example about saying that when we're serving many people, there's a limitation of, if it's in a very general way. So then I became interested in putting together, you know, a group high ticket group program, which then again, you come towards the internal stuff, which I can almost hear people saying, Oh, but you can't work in a group or in a group online.

2 (47m 54s):
Or we can't do these things, but there's people who've done it. So it becomes about can we adapt or not? Right. And so that's what I'm working on next. That's where I'm looking to go. And like what you're doing with the mastermind, this idea of working one to many, I'm very interested in that because I think time, I used to think, actually I used to think money is this, this, this commodity that we really only need to go after. But then I realized, well, it's money without time.

1 (48m 25s):
Yeah. And I even wrote down something you said earlier, I, you said how much for what, when we talk about our price, how much for what you don't even know what you're buying and you're reducing something to a commodity. So even as I'm here hearing you speak, you know, that imposter monster saying $300 is too much. And when you actually understand what you're giving them, I was in a clubhouse room with Lance Sinclair. Who's been on this podcast the other day. And I mentioned, I said, you know, I, I need help pricing my stuff more to better reflect the value that it gives. I'm, I'm really great about pricing. My one-on-ones, my one-on-one for $500. And Lance immediately things me. And he says, well, you're only charging $500.

1 (49m 7s):
We need to get on the phone. And he gets on the phone with me. And if you, if you want to a representation of our conversation, listen to his podcast. But he goes, you know, in the consultation, he helps them really, really, really understand the pain that they are moving away from and the pleasure that they are moving toward. And he, this is what he's, this is how he's framing this service that he's given them, giving them. So I think when we really understand that value, it's something incredible happens. So I want to, I, this is where I'd love to steer us if it's okay with you, Craig, I would love to talk to you a little bit more for, for the benefit of people who are in the pandemic are unable to work in person really love that in-person work and think that they're going to lose something by moving to zoom.

1 (49m 58s):
I would love for you to speak to that and talk about your experience in transitioning from in-person to online

2 (50m 5s):
People make it way, way, way bigger than it is really, because I think about it when somebody, if we just look at it and say the, the, when you have, this is another one thing I'm taking from Jason night, when your eyes are closed and you're listening to my voice, it, that makes no difference whether my voice is in the room with you or whether it's coming through your headphones, switches me paraphrasing. It doesn't make so much difference that provided. We have communication is all that we need for hypnosis. That's all we cannot bells and whistles to it, but provided we have an open and clear line of communication. We can, we can do the work. It's about looking at it and saying, there's also support materials we can send. If we do find that it's in a situation where, you know, we feel that the environment's not great.

2 (50m 49s):
There's always components of it. We could do online and we could send them an audio, which isn't the ideal thing, but there's always being flexible. Really. There may be times where somebody's internet connection. Isn't good. So it's incorporating something where if we did get setting up a backup, if we get disconnected, you'll your eyes will open and you'll immediately know you'll feel great and return to a full awakened consciousness. And I will call you on your cell phone. You know, it's about just being able to just adapt to it and knowing that the more that we put off doing it, the scarier will become just doing it. And to go back to what we talked about earlier with the pricing part, if you have to do some low cost or free ones with somebody that, you know, start there. But I think it's, it's something that people make really huge deal off really, to be honest.

2 (51m 33s):
I mean, I've done quite a few of them before the pandemic, so it wasn't completely new to me, but the only real, the real part that I think is different is we don't control the environment in the same way that we would at the office. But there's times where in my office, where if the cleaners down the hall we're like vacuuming another space or something that always kind of be something or in New York for there seems to be continual construction outside. There might be like, you know, some construction site and you go, well, I just got to kind of work this and, you know yeah. And, and just like, you might do an in person session, you know, there's things that you could suggest that you can give to, to address that. But really just thinking about what are the, the base, the essentials that we need communication.

2 (52m 13s):
We need to be able to hear each other. And I like to be able to see them too, but you know, it's not okay. But as long as we can hear each other, clearly, as long as we have backups in place, and I would always tell him, please find an environment where it's comfortable and, you know, quiet for us to engage in this. And I know some, some struggle with, with that. And especially during the pandemic where there were lockdowns and things, people might have had a hard time saying, listen, I have kids and I can't find a quiet place. And some I've even had people then say, well, they go to their car or something it's about so being flexible with it and really recognizing that it's the communication and the space that we hold that really creates the change for a long time. That would be something I would say to your earlier question.

2 (52m 54s):
If I could go back to the beginning, it's not the bells and the whistles. Those are nice, but it's the space. And if we can't relate to the client in our mind to a representation of them having the goal, then we're not speaking to the goal. We're speaking to how they are. Now. That's another piece that I think is very important because most of our communication is non-verbal right. And outside of the hypnosis community, here's something that I heard that's really important about that people can only sh can only show up to us as good as our internal representation of them allows them to be. So if someone's an asshole, we're looking for the signs to be right, because our beliefs want us to be right. Belief bias, right. We want to be right. So we're ignoring everything. That's not that. So when a client comes in, we want to relate to them as their result.

2 (53m 37s):
So can we do that online? Of course we can. If you had a con, if you were to call someone on zoom that you haven't seen in a long time, and you just have a great experience, what's happening there, you're relating, you're communicating. So it's, it's all communication. And if we, as long as we have the communication, we can do the work. I think the spatial part it's nice, but I think people probably pay too much attention to it. In my opinion, being in the, in the same space as special. I won't say that it's not, but it absolutely does not mean we can't do the work online and this is how things are going. And that's one of the things about the pandemic that's made telehealth, which, you know, it's not exactly what we are, but I'll, I'll, I'll bring it up is it's normal.

2 (54m 19s):
And it's great because it means then that people that would say that they're, they're stuck in a small town and in the countryside and you know, they're financially, it's very limiting. It's about saying we don't have to play that game. So I think, I think that people, honestly, back to what I said a few minutes ago, I think people make a way bigger deal of it. The only thing that's really different in my opinion is we can't control their environment. That's the biggest thing that might be noisy. It might not be ideal. We can't control that part of it, that the rest of it for me, we, I mean, we can do what we do and being flexible. Yeah.

1 (54m 53s):
And I know sometimes people are afraid of, you know, what happens if my connection doesn't work out? What happens if this, this certain thing happens? And I've, I've actually done group calls where my fire alarm started going off. And I, I was unable. I have 12 foot ceilings, so I couldn't make it stop. It was an apartment wide thing. And I went and did the session in my car and I've, you know, I've had clients be in their car. Like you mentioned, someone in our mastermind the other day was talking about how she, they, they couldn't get the audio to work. So she ended up just having to get on the phone and do the session on the phone. And she said it was one of the best, most awesome sessions she ever did. So when you come in with, with an intention to hold that space, like you're saying all those, what ifs can happen and it can still turn out really awesome.

1 (55m 42s):
So I love that you shared that

2 (55m 46s):
Yup. In person too, in person too can happen. Yeah,

1 (55m 49s):
Absolutely. And, and the cool thing about the, I actually think that we can put a positive spin on. I saw someone post the other day and say, zoom sessions are almost as good as in person. And I, I wanted to say, no, they are every bit as good. Like they are 100% as awesome. And I'll often frame for my clients. It can be even more awesome because you're already comfortable in your own home. You don't have to settle in and acclimate to a new office. You don't have to commute. All you have to do is push play and show. So it, I think that they can be even more, more incredible or certainly as incredible as in-person.

2 (56m 33s):
Well, I think an important thing to say about that is that we're not in a relationship with anyone or anything in the world, we're in relationships with our representations of them. So it's about saying that then what's our internal space and what we're paying attention to determines our experience. Now that can be what's happening outside, but the way that we represent that determines how we react to it. So that's why if we, and we give suggestions for that, and I say, what's, I'm going to, now that I'm on the spot here, I'm going to not quite get this one. I think. So I think it's important to say that, that, how do I phrase this?

2 (57m 14s):
This would be fluent if it was in a session, by the way that as we're aware of all of the outside science, there's simply a reminder that regardless of the world outside, we are creating our own experience from the inside. So I think that's a great muscle to build because otherwise it's like that thing about saying, this makes me feel this way. You'll say, well, show me the science. How does it do that? Like I, I mean, like, I'm curious, how does it do that, that thing that can't move, talk speaker has no power. How does it make you this way? And it's like, well, actually I'm making it that way. So saying, well, what if we didn't do that? So I think that's an important thing where I always say that, that we generate our own reality from within. So even the same, thing's important.

2 (57m 54s):
We can let, we can pay attention to that a or not. And we can add, we can pay attention to it in a way that creates irritation or not. And I often think like, especially in New York growth and thought there was a lot of noise, you'd have sirens, you'd have, you know, construction, all of that stuff. It's almost about saying, well, the peace in the sanctuary is within first and is outside secondary. Secondly, secondly, secondary. Yes. So I was thinking about that idea that we're often, which is a bigger theme that we're looking for the outside to be people, places, situations to be a certain way so that I'm okay inside. But what if we got it the wrong way round? And if we get a little quantum about it, maybe I have to create it myself.

2 (58m 37s):
And then it reflects in the outside world. So that fits even in with the sounds or being ready, like when I'm at pro level, I'll start training. But there's a problem with that. There's a real issue with that. So same with the sounds and the environment situation, but saying, well, part of what we have, I think that what we're training people in is the power of their mind. And actually one thing that I think I'll bring up here is that I was thinking about this. And I think everything that people come into work on everything, everything, everything, everything comes down to one thing, their habits of attention, that's it. They have habitually pay attention to certain things in a certain way.

2 (59m 18s):
And that's creating the problem. If they shift their attention or shift the attention to away from the particular lens, they were looking at those things through the problem can no longer support itself. Everything is habits of attention. So even with the sounds, we can sit and we can listen to it and go, I hate that sign and we could be right about it. It's fine. But it's what is it? What we choose the idea that we, that, that we are creating own reality based partly upon what we're paying attention to habits of attention, even science, I can habitually sit and listen to I'm listening for the same. The neighbors make. And every time I hear that, I'm like, Oh, and then always me, or like I was in the end, going all these, the car horns or the sirens in New York going, there's another one and going wait, Hmm.

2 (1h 0m 1s):
Maybe I don't want to be listening for that and telling myself that, or then that other internal voice that says, Craig, if a client said that, what would you say? And that's an interesting voice. That one,

1 (1h 0m 11s):
I love that I just shared yesterday. That's my, one of my most empowering questions because someone in our mastermind mentioned that she said, Hey, do you sometimes forget to use the tools on yourself? And everybody commented underneath all the time. And I said, one of my favorite ways to switch out of that is to say, what would I tell a client who was dealing with this? And all of a sudden that helps me start thinking, Oh, I can do this and this and this, but it's so easy to forget, isn't it?

2 (1h 0m 38s):
Yes. But let's add compassion to that too, you know, like, so if I'm not using all the tools all of the time that I'm can be compassionate with myself, don't have to be perfect. But at the same time working on it, like you did there,

1 (1h 0m 51s):
I love that. You said that. And that's why it's so valuable to, you know, that's why I created this podcast is so people would understand we're all dealing with the imposter monster. Like there are some really big names in the industry on the show talking about their imposter monster. And so when you realize, yeah, sometimes you forget to use your tools, we're all doing it. And, and w one little empowering question can switch you back in and, and be nice to yourself. Don't beat yourself up for it.

2 (1h 1m 17s):
Like you said, the other day, that what if question, right. If you use that one wisely, it's a very powerful tool rather than an adversary.

1 (1h 1m 24s):
Yeah. Just start to turn it around when you're, you know, you were talking about how we're in a state of hypnosis when we're thinking about the future, and this is such a hallmark of anxiety. We're thinking, what if I botched that interview? What if I do this scary thing? And when you just flip it around and say, what if it goes really well? What if I absolutely nail it? What if they call me back and make me a bigger offer than I ever could have expected it, it just changes everything.

2 (1h 1m 48s):
And then that's also how we represent people. Because then if we were the person that's saying that is probably representing the interviewer or same, if they go for an audition, the judge they're representing them as bigger. So these things that are really interesting about if you portray yourself, being, being bigger and looking down at that situation, you bring resources to it that you might not otherwise. And I love now almost hearing the language that people use, but like, they'll say I'm tired. I'm tired of this person looking down at me and you say, but wait, you're taller than them. How does that work? And that glitch that they get about going, yeah, that is weird that I said that isn't it. So it's so interesting how the subconscious gives all these clues and we don't really think about it. And when you say it to someone, it's amazing what happens, they'll say, Oh yeah, I don't know.

2 (1h 2m 29s):
I don't know why. I don't know why I said that. So almost like saying, well, how are we representing ourselves in that situation and how are we representing them? And then this idea that really we are, we are making this movie in our head and projecting it into the space and then reacting to it as if how did, who made this movie? I don't like it very much so. And I think it's such an interesting thing around that. Like, I don't know if this is useful to bring up here, but this idea that maybe when you, you hear about say fast phobia cure and things, people talk about the movie theater, right. We knew that you've got these different levels of association. So I think it's such an interesting thing about this idea, how people make these movies in their mind, but don't realize it's a movie and then they fully associate into it and go, wait, I don't like this movie who, who made this?

2 (1h 3m 12s):
It's like, will you scripted it? Or somebody else gave you the script and you rehearsed it, acted in it and said, how did this happen? Now? I need someone to take me out of the movie that I myself made an acted in, but I don't believe in hypnosis because that's not real. So hilarious. Really, when you think about it and about that idea, that then that we're all making movies and some, and this idea that something I kind of joke about with, with certain clients now about reminds looking for just enough information to go back to sleep. Cause being conscious is exhausting. So it's almost like we want to live with our labels because it means we don't have to think. So even like, so even once the imposter monster speaks, it might trigger certain things and we go, Oh, it's familiar.

2 (1h 3m 52s):
So I, now I don't have to look for the evidence that clashes with it, or we'll say I'm a certain way. They're a certain way. The world's a certain way. The prices are a certain way. The techniques are a certain way. Politics are a certain way so that when we, when we find enough evidence to, to satisfy that label, our conscious mind can just go offline again. So I'm just thinking about it. It's that idea about being open and aware and asking those attention, shifting questions that allow us to include new information? Because I think really the work changing beliefs is such an interesting thing, bringing new perspectives and new information to those beliefs in the right setting or with the right consistency, breaks them down. And then our mind suddenly is going away looking for other information.

2 (1h 4m 34s):
And it's such an interesting thing really about managing this, this thing in our mind, where if you think about it, our brain or per brain is trying to represent the, the, the endless nature of the universe. That basically you have your own universe in your, in your, in your brain when you think about it. So imagine the level of deletion and distortion and everything that has to happen in order for you to try and make sense of all of this complex stuff. And like, thinking about what, what stuck, what a trans status. Cause what are we ignoring that when people say every day is the same, it's not even possible every day is the same, but we'll say that, catch yourself saying that, or I can't do this thing, but then if you look online, there's all the people that have done it.

2 (1h 5m 14s):
And then the imposter monster will say, Oh, but they're special. We're all special. And I think that another important thing to add to people listening to is no matter what, it's not people aren't buying your techniques, they're buying you yes. And about looking at it and saying, so therefore, there's a way that you will do what you do and the energy you bring to it that cannot be matched by anybody else. So it's about having that confidence to say that, yes, we want, initially we want to follow certain people, but then recognizing that you're an individual and what you do has value. And also it's interesting as well, how we'll attract clients that we can connect to because we think why can, we've had some of that experience in my life myself. And it's funny how that works. So, but you are, you you're unique and, and what you do and bring to the table for clients can't be matched exactly by anybody else.

2 (1h 6m 0s):
So there's a big story for you, Lori.

1 (1h 6m 3s):
This is so incredible. I, I knew this was going to be awesome having you here, and I'm getting way more than I bargained for. So will you talk to me a little bit about where you're heading, if you were to make a movie in your head of what you, where you would like to go next in your business, will you let me know what that looks like for you? And don't be afraid to dream big. I've I've just heard someone wise tell me that in the last 45 minutes here, that that's advice he would give his, his younger self. So

2 (1h 6m 38s):
Well that guy, Oh, that guy he's on his lunch break. That guy where I want to go is I want to move more into, into group programs and being more of a specialist self-sabotage really interests me. So does working on anxiety and self-esteem, those things are really interesting to me. So I'm actually putting together a group program for people who, who struggled with self sabotage, where they're finding that in their careers, that to get to where they've gotten to, they've had to sacrifice a lot in their, in their health and potentially their relationships and about almost a reorganizing, the wiring and the beliefs so that they have space to get what they want without sacrificing what they don't.

2 (1h 7m 19s):
That's one part of it. And actually I'm really inspired by your, your group model about this idea that I can serve a group of people, but possibly a lower cost to make it more accessible on a particular theme. So I'm looking to build that too, although that's really in the, in the very early stages. So working more with groups and within specific niche programs, that's where I'm, that's where I'm looking to go.

1 (1h 7m 40s):
Craig, this has been so awesome. I have enjoyed every minute of this interview and I feel like my audience is going to get massive value from this. If someone wants to get in touch with you, where, where should they come to reach out to you? Maybe if they have more questions and want to shoot you an email, what's the best way to get in touch with you. If you're happy to share that.

2 (1h 8m 0s):
Sure. It's it's my first name Craig at freedom hypnosis, And that's my website, freedom hypnosis I also have some videos on YouTube. It's under freedom hypnosis email would be the best way and they can also see some of stuff on, on YouTube. I don't post that much, but I have a few things up there, but email's the best.

0 (1h 8m 20s):
Okay, perfect. And is there any final, final aha moments or words of wisdom you want to leave people with before we say goodbye?

2 (1h 8m 30s):
Yes. Keep evolving, stay interested, follow what excites you and know that there's a reason you're excited by it. And that if you follow your bliss with it, you will actually connect with clients who are interested in the same things and you'll provide value there. But also I would say as well, don't make it about you. And this is from a conversation Laura and I had, yeah, off the record a little while ago, don't make it about you. Think about all the people that you can help. And when you get those, when you get good reviews or good feedback from people, make note of it, take it in, soak it in and recognize that that's someone's life that you have helped. And, and it can be useful sometimes to take a moment to project yourself out into the future and think about all of the people you have helped.

2 (1h 9m 10s):
And all the people that you are yet to help. And to soak that in and recognize that that's that's who you are in the world. And the only thing that will stop you from that is you. So get out of your head and think about them. Don't make it about you, make it about them and recognize that you are unique. No one else can do what you do in the way that you do. Your energy is unique. Your story is unique. Keep learning, keep growing. Don't make it about you. Take action, show up. And I believe in you.

0 (1h 9m 35s):
I'm so grateful. You've listened all the way to the end. What is one tiny action step you'll take now based on an aha moment you got during the podcast, maybe that life changing action step is to come accept the gift I have for [email protected]. Head there right now to get your powerful, hypnosis audio, the answer room that lets you make important decisions and get crystal clear about your next step forward on this path of purpose in your one. Great and precious life.

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, metus at rhoncus dapibus, habitasse vitae cubilia odio sed. Mauris pellentesque eget lorem malesuada wisi nec, nullam mus. Mauris vel mauris. Orci fusce ipsum faucibus scelerisque.